Julia Milner: “Empowering others by listening and asking them questions is always a good thing, even if the temptation is to bring ready-to-use answers”

What subjects are you interested in at the moment?

For research and teaching purposes, I’m spending a lot of time on leadership, career habits, positive psychology and coaching. My angle is the individual: how each of us functions in the workplace and in life and interacts with others. I’m looking at how to deal with mistakes, leadership and inclusivity, wellbeing and habits, empathy, how leaders learn coaching skills...

These research fields are very active so I’m reading a lot and publishing in various academic journals. But I’m also very much involved in the dissemination of research and actionable ideas via TEDX talks (1), columns in newspapers (like HBR France, HBR US and The Conversation) and in EDHEC Vox. I also have a YouTube channel on career topics (2). I’d say that my main motivation is empowering people to help themselves: quite an infinite task!

Can you tell us more about micromanagement, and why it is, according to you, a widespread phenomenon?

Indeed, I do think micromanagement (3) is the current illustration of why management is something we all need to put efforts into. Learning, trying, changing… if one is not trained or not confident enough to improve oneself, the backlashes can be serious. The paradox is that research shows giving advice is motivational, but not receiving it (4).

There are 3 main ways micromanaging is happening: by being unaware that my work habits (giving advice, coaching wrongly, constantly monitoring), even though they can be rooted in good intentions, are in fact deleterious (5); by considering that management is not that hard whereas, in fact, it requires skills – I’ve identified for example 9 main skills and qualities that are all but optional at work (6); by confusing the qualities that led you to your job and the ones (especially leadership) you need to develop, as well as the beliefs you have to build or get rid of (“I will not make any mistake” and so on).

All in all, micromanaging leads to loss of motivation, distrust and loss of purpose (3).

You’re also advocating the fact that you can’t really lead others if you’re not “leading yourself”. Could you explain?

The best leaders are the ones who place high self-awareness, reflection, and self-care. Not in a selfish way of course, on the contrary: admitting that perfection is not a model, that detours and mistakes are common, and that taking care of oneself make it much easier to show, and not just say, that leaders and teammates are on the same boat.

We dive here into the question of role-modeling. Simply take the case of a manager, with the best intentions, who ask her or his team to have a well-balanced life while sacrificing herself or himself at work: what is the “true” message – what she or he is saying, or doing?

So if you had five very efficient tips to give to managers, what would they be?

In no particular order, I’d say that empowering others by listening and asking them questions is always a good thing, even if the temptation is to bring ready-to-use answers (7). You also have to be open to surprise by having and promoting an agile mindset. As we all face uncertainty, at different levels and moments of course, I think it’s important to “name” it, by being transparent and sharing what we don’t know at a certain point; it is linked in a way to emotions and empathy (8). As I said also, managers should move away from perfectionism, as very high standards could be enough, allowing everyone to share both success and failures (9). Last, I’m thinking about the culture of feedback, and even better: the culture of 2 way-street feedback (10), as long as there’s a common agreement on the right time and place to do so.

What are the next steps for you?

I’m working on numerous academic articles and insights into how to learn leadership coaching, wellbeing during stressful times, motivational micromanagement. I also have in preparation new HBR columns on the leadership and how to create good career and wellbeing habits that serve you.

References

(1) Tedxtalk 1: The surprising truth in how to be a great leader (Nov. 2018) - https://www.ted.com/talks/julia_milner_the_surprising_truth_in_how_to_be_a_great_leader

Tedxtalk 2: How to turn Regrets into change (March 2023) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92vi4W8VDag

(2) Prof. Julia Milner - https://www.youtube.com/@prof.juliamilner8941

(3) Are You a Micromanager? HBR US (April 2024) - https://hbr.org/2024/04/are-you-a-micromanager

Directors and managers, are you sure you're not micro-managing? HBR France (Feb. 2024) -
https://www.edhec.edu/en/research-and-faculty/edhec-vox/directors-and-managers-are-you-sure-you-re-not-micro-managing

Could you be a victim of micromanagement? Seven tips to take back control. The Conversation (Jul. 2023) - https://www.edhec.edu/en/research-and-faculty/edhec-vox/could-you-be-victim-micromanagement-seven-tips-take-back-control

(4) Julia Milner, Trenton Milner, The fallacy of giving advice. Organizational Dynamics, Vol. 51, Issue 4 (2022). https://doi.org/10.1016/j.orgdyn.2022.100898

(5) Milner, J., Milner, T., McCarthy, G., & da Motta Veiga, S. (2023). Leaders as Coaches: Towards a Code of Ethics. The Journal of Applied Behavioral Science, 59(3), 448-472. https://doi.org/10.1177/00218863211069408

Most Managers Don’t Know How to Coach People. But They Can Learn. HBR US (April 2018) -
https://hbr.org/2018/08/most-managers-dont-know-how-to-coach-people-but-they-can-learn

(6) Why empathy constitutes the ultimate leadership skill. The Conversation (Dec. 2023) - https://www.edhec.edu/en/research-and-faculty/edhec-vox/why-empathy-constitutes-ultimate-leadership-skill

(7) Responsabiliser et encourager : comment la posture de "coach" permet de contrer le micro-management. HBR France (Avril 2024) - https://www.edhec.edu/fr/recherche-et-faculte/edhec-vox/responsabiliser-et-encourager-comment-la-posture-de-coach-permet-de-contrer-micro-management

(8) Yoshie Tomozumi Nakamura, Julia Milner, Inclusive leadership via empathic communication. Organizational Dynamics, Vol. 52, Issue 1 (2023). https://doi.org/10.1016/j.orgdyn.2023.100957

(9) Well-being at work: 4 keys to keeping your resolutions in 2024. HBR France (Feb. 2024) - https://www.edhec.edu/en/research-and-faculty/edhec-vox/well-being-at-work-4-keys-keeping-your-resolutions-2024

(10) Le feed-back, un outil puissant pour booster les performances individuelles et collectives. HBR France (Avril 2024) - https://www.hbrfrance.fr/management/le-feed-back-un-outil-puissant-pour-booster-les-performances-individuelles-et-collectives-60497